**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon May 13 22:27:52 2002 --> adiamas (~adiamas@216.194.26.28) has joined #rockbox --- Topic for #rockbox is Does your box rock? http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/ --- Topic for #rockbox set by Bagder at Mon May 13 04:46:28 --> edx (edx@pD9EA9D41.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #rockbox morning :) --- edx is now known as edx|breakfast --> calpefrosch (~calpefros@62.52.174.30) has joined #rockbox hi calpefrosch... --- edx|breakfast is now known as edx <-- edx has quit ("off for school") --> Bagder (~daniel@as3-3-2.ras.s.bonet.se) has joined #rockbox --- calpefrosch is now known as calpefrosch|work --> Zagor_ (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox --- Zagor_ is now known as Zagor hi all morning I added my malloc code yesterday as you probably noticed in the test dir only so far with about 8 new files, would you say a new firmware/memory/ directory is justified? hmm why so many files? 3 c, 3 h, two "docs" firmware/malloc seems a better name, imho as long as it is only for malloc, yes ;-) what more do you want in there? nothing, at the moment. I just thought that if it is named memory, future related additions could go in there no big deal well if you put it in "common", we can put all kinds of things there :) <-- linuxstb has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) --> linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox does it make any sense to separate 20 bytes malloc() from 28 bytes malloc() ? * Bagder doesn't think so huh? umm, we need some context here the smallest possible area that will be alloced is 20 bytes now the next "bump" up is 28 bytes got ya and the next after that is 52 we should probably do some profiling to determine the "bumps" yeah, I should probably just leave them as they are for now yup <-- linuxstb has quit (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) --> linuxstb (dave@dsl-212-23-31-215.zen.co.uk) has joined #rockbox * Bagder spots that we're now only 227 days from completing the RC5-64 Which will be ready first: A "dogfood" rockbox firmware or RC5-64? :) a worthy race ;-) a "dogfood"? and what is RC5-64? http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/html/entry/dogfood.html http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/ and our team is here: http://stats.distributed.net/rc5-64/tmsummary.php3?team=18241 RC5 is an encryption algorithm, the RC5-64 is a competion to find the key of a crypto, distributed on computer world wide hhehehe k... been going on for 1664 days today hmmm one of yo umay know... my display, font, size etc on my virtual terms (linux) is outta whack.. i think its releated to my libvga.config but im not sure.. ideas? libvga? you're not using X11? * Bagder has no good clue uh, ignore me :) i am using X11 * Zagor reads "virtual terms" slowly, several times. Finally gets it. but on my virtual terms.... yeah.. do: ctrl-alt-f4 i've never had that problem and imagine seeing 2 login prompts.. one at the top of the screen.. and another at the bottom :) <-- linuxstb has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) adiamas: that ipaq question (on the mlist) should probably be added to the FAQ. I get it a lot. he can take your upcoming and thorough reply and paste in ;-) hehe I have an IPAQ too, and it would be cool to use the rockbox with it. ähh, jukebox it would, indeed. so get started on a driver ;) it's not my special subject ;-) since it is just usb-storage, one would suspect that many people would be intersted in such a driver --> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox I mean, non-Archos ppl too morning Stuart Bagder: indeed howdy if someone would donate an ipaq to me, I'd consider looking into it :) are you looking for someone special ? for pocketpc? I wouldn't ;-) * calpefrosch|work holds his IPAQ tight bleh, no not for pocketpc. i'm not going anywhere near that. there is a Linux for the IPAQ.. yup, that's what I'd consider looking into however, I'm not about to trade in my vintage HP 200LX anytime soon hehe what year did you buy that? I can't remember. 1995 or something. it says "copyright 1992,1994" on the back :) it's DOS ?? yep MS-DOS 5.0 and you didn't install Linux on it?? ;-) no. It's got an 8086, so it's a bit limited. last time I checked, the state of the linux port was very raw 80186 isn't it? well it's some kind of NEC x86-compatible chip, I don't remember the exact model * calpefrosch|work goes to work again 1 May 2002: FIRST EVER ELKS BETA!!! doesn't *really* matter ;-) * Zagor is downloading :) elks? Embeddable Linux Kernel Subset - linux for the 8086 aaah --> Linus (~linus@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox dr Linus! yo Doctor Linus. I like the sound of that! :-) then you better start doing really good things ;-) after all, Torvalds *is* a "doctor Linus" I actually have an almost working audio thread. Bagder: I'm curious about the button interface in what way? The simulator code reads the buttons and sleep for 1 tick in a loop. Shouldn't that be handled with a message queue? perhaps Or is it hard to simulate? the code reading the keys should run on the timer interrupt, shouldn't it? I believe so and post to a queue when a button is pressed>/released so we better do the correct thing for the target code first, and then we adjust the similator to work similarly I'll do that as you might've seen, I've added the malloc code to the firmware/malloc dir now it should be possible to use Great. it needs one init call and one bmalloc_add_pool() ok <-- wavey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) --- Zagor is now known as Zagor|lunch --> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox --> dwihno (dwihno@Bald067.Baldakinen.Umea.SE) has joined #rockbox God förmiddag Ingen vaken? :/ --- Zagor|lunch is now known as Zagor helo hi there. english here fast vi är svenskar några av oss Okay * Zagor slaps Linus I obey ouch! Anyways, looking for reviews regarding the archos players, I stumbled across the rockbox page :) welcome :-) Many people do Since I've been reading a couple of reviews pinpointing the software as a design flaw, I got interested to know more about the device :) Shoot well i guess there's a few nights' worth of reading on the webpage :-) *sha-baam* hehe What kind of batteries? AA NiMH Is the sound quality good or bad? Signal-to-noise ratio etc... 1.2V NiMH Is it possible to find replacement batteries without travelling to asia :) ? sound quality is very good on the recorder, fairly good on the player The batteries are common you can buy them in any hobby shop Since you have been working on the software for quite some time, what is your personal opinions about the devices? I bough mine at Teknikmagasinet we love them! some design flaws, but in general the flexibility that comes from using standard parts is really nice Although they have saved maybe one penny too much on some parts of the hardware ah, okay I am considering the 20gb recorder model good choice Good choice echo cho cho... but the software part makes me a bit ... worried :) that's what we're here for ;) :D Don't be alarmed. it's not that bad no, it's quite alright All reviews screaming about the "bad sound quality", are they just using bad headphones? Because I HATE hiss-noises when listening to music that depends many reviews only listened to very early model players, which had bad sound quality. that was fixed in a firmware upgrade over a year ago ah, okay How about skipping? * Bagder returns with a cup of steaming coffee but there is a buzz problem in the recorder, that I don't know if they have fixed yet Does the buffer prevent it 100%? buzz problem? no, you'll get skipping if you take it jogging, for example I have no problem with skipping this is not a device for the ski bumps :) But since it is a hard drive you must be careful with it. But you don't want to go jogging with it. It is too heavy for that, IMHO ah, okay for walking, the buffer is sufficient? sometimes, the recorder emits a quiet buzz sound that seems to come from the screen update. we're trying to address that in our firmware. dwihno: it is Haven't had a skip yet Are there any big differences between the recorder and studio models? As far as I know, there are only these two models of the player (with different sizes...)? big differences the recorder has a much better screen, more keys and better sound the recorder has recording abilities? :) what else? :) ah, more keys The recorder has a newer, better, MP3 decoder chip I love keys the price difference is slim, only $30-40 More sound tweaking parameters the big difference is the screen. the studio is a 11x2 character display, the recorder is a 112x64 bitmap display How often does the recorder-buzz-noise appear? there won't be any tetris on the studio! The Tetris is awful on the Studio So the studio is more like a low-budget (older perhaps) model? Yup I read about that tetris game, that was a quite fun thingy :) dwihno: look here: http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/devcon/show.cgi?img4083.jpg BIG difference! :O yeah And the USB2.0 interface ROCKS! I'm impressed with the rate of progress you guys are making with the replacement firmware :) Who got the idea rolling in the first place? it sure does usb2 is schweeeet It was Zagors idea * Bagder blames Zagor we did nothing ;-) hehe I just sit and watch Zagor = Björn, right? yes ah... Zagör I've heard about you in other places :) Hey, we got a celebrity here! :D oh? That must be Björn Borg C64? muaahahaha :-) Zagor is curious I can't remember, but the words Björn. haxx, and Daniel(?) rings a bell somewhere deep inside my head * Bagder hides * Linus feels left out heh, yeah we've got our fingers into quite a number of projects... :-) Linus: I just sit and watch <-- suit yourself ;) I tried "Stenberg" on google :-) I'm only number four Try Nielsen Feltzing correction, you're the third ;-) First hit: Rockbox :-) YEAH! :D All your rockbox are belong to archos! :D Speaking of which, have they contacted you? we've practically invaded google :) we own google nope. I don't expect they will, either A project this big might draw some attention "Stop the project or die" :) yeah, we'll see that would be slightly amusing ;-) they don't have much to go on, though. this is all clean and legal ...until they send guys gome to us with large aluminum bats If our firmware is better thet theirs, it will certainly be embarassing "if"? ;) when :-) "when" It's just a question of time exactly The web page is up to date with all the green and yellow marked features? yup may 8 boot loader? we should make the tree.c yellow and add a link to the API docs embryo The boot loader is for loading different firmwares ah, okay games, the Archos original firmware etc web browser, pdf reader... :-P Movie player Hey, as long as you can watch pr0n jpeg's in BW I'm satisfied ;D You want the video Archos right, we need a jpeg decoder with scrolling :) Lots of scrolling heh bicubic interpolation is all you need we just use a large screen buffer and lcd_update() with an x,y I already considered this actually ;-) i'm moving the simulators to GREEN. they do work, after all hah :) cool yay! tree is yellow now! :D Zagor: right tree.c has a bad link ah, fixing add the API docs link too BTW, what do I have to do to get system.c green? How do you browse tracks and such on the player? Do you have a tree view of all files? Rewrite it, I know... The tree is quite small on a 2x11 screen :-) Is it possible to make play an entire directory without playlists? In short: how is the user interface on the archos? :) You mean the Archos original firmware? yeah If you want to, you can tell me about your own implementation of the directory browsing (or however it works) :) In the origina, you can create playlists that consists of an entire directory tree with a simple button press we will make everything *perfect* ;-) Bagder is right Wa are *cool* yeah :-) YOU OWNZZZZ! :D * Bagder giggles Where in .se do you buy it for the best price? R000lz I dont know dwihno: i've been thinking about all these things since before i got my archos, and watching these guys progress and they're doing it all just right * Bagder doesn't know either * Linus blushes :-) I bought my Archos solely for the purpose of running OUR software :-) You mean, playing tetris and storing jpeg's? :) I bought mine to listen to music music is secondary to me I have two * Zagor has three :) haha One developer machine and one music machine and the winner is... Zagor cheats ZAGOR! For almighty ownzage ;D it's not cheating, it's called "outside assistance" ;) Yeah, you got a 6000 model you lucky bastard :) Threatening a poo frenchman to get his player. That's low. i decided to get one to run other firmware on it before your first LCD scroller release heh i just knew these devices were gonna do more than they were being sold as What is left to do before the first release of the firmware? The 6000/studio model will be the first target for our firmware dwihno: basically tying it all together I have some things to do with the MPEG playing code some more MP3 playback work, a bit more UI tweaks But it plays music The 4 second boundary has been broken? :) Indeed. It plays from hard disk How did you play 4 seconds btw? Loading 128K of MP3 data via the debugger that "news" section on the web site could mention this I can do documentation! :D Great! I want to be a part of the phenomenon! Please join we could use that we need all the help we can get Do you have any kind of screenshots of the firmware I can see? :) There is no firmware yet... :-( we have simulators ah, okay Is it possible to test it on win32? yes but I wouldn't call it "test" but there's no binary available for download only source in CVS damn, I have no development enviromnent setup here :/ you can always suck up to the win32 developers on this channel we should ask the win32 guys to start making "releases" BTW, the USB2 interface is backwards-compatible, right+ ? yes yes 1.1 works fine too We should have a Java simulator too. Then we could have it as an applet on the web page! :-) haha 1.1? usb1.1 USB1.1 yeah, that'd be easy. just one monster of a JNI hack ;) Is USB 1.1 the standard of all computers? :) yes ah Is there USB 1.0? i don't think so hm maybe in some stoneage computer a long long time ago, in a taiwanese bunker far away they never released 1.0. I think it had 1.5Mbit speed What is the speed of 1.1? oooh. 12? yes, 12 and for 2.0? 4xx ? 480 New DSP algoritms.... What do you have planned? whatever we can get. OGG, WAV etc ah, okay i talked to somebody in #vorbis about ogg I read in the FAQ, that WAV would be unsupported :) on the hardware How about reading mpeg streams of sounds from ... let's say ... divx's Would that be possible? he said it *might* be possible between the sh1 and the mas heh I think so. As long as the sound is MP3 It's just a matter of reading the files yeah not very optimistically thought... if it possible, likely it is for the recorder only Playing wav files with 48kHz stereo will not be possible on the Player without compression In what way? The serial line between the CPU and the decoder is too slow ah, okay 1mbit/s But the recorder has a parallel connection so it should be possible however, the burden on the DMA will be high And the CPU will be wuite busy quite ah But never say never. it has a fairly low priority at the moment... We can dream about it :) 22khz 16bit stereo or 44khz 16bit mono should be possible on the player, and anything less, right? those are only around 700kbps indeed PsycoXul: i believe so but then it seems to have problems playing high bitrate mp3's so that might not be the limiting factor either That is a CPU problem I think How about funny file formats like MOD's, and emulating SID and stuff? :) Hold your horses! Or am I all away in the blue now? :) "blue sky alert, take cover" As long as we don't have WAV playing we can't generate any other sound than MP3 Rockbox - Making our dreams come true ;D heh Rockbox - what do you want to play tomorrow? But as soon as we have PCM we surely can dream about MOd and stuff Yeah Before building the house, it is nice to have some bricks :) yeah if we can have pcm and the COU isn't exactly a monster