**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Mon Mar 25 08:57:45 2002 --> Bagder (~daniel@217.215.72.110) has joined #rockbox hey --- adiamas has changed the topic to: hacking the Archos Jukebox http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/ hey there... i was about to call it a night and head to sleep didn't expect anyone in this quick :) hehe, its morning here ;-) hehe i _just_ sent the email like 30 secs ago :) yeps hehe glad to see someone saw it... you located in europe... yes where in? Sweden hehe well.. your first in so.. here --- adiamas gives channel operator status to Bagder :-) someone who's awake should have some control... I'm Björn's brother actually ahh... hehe seems he got followers pretty quickly. indeed and pretty varied at that... Im here in the USA. * adiamas shrugs there are 77 subscribers of the mailing list wow, that was quick only been 3-4 months yes? yeah, since about december BTW, I think making a FAQ sounds like a great idea * adiamas smiles happily im just not to sure on how technical to go on it, but i figure even something is a start will you be sitting in the room most the day or you plan on logging off? exactly, just start somewhere and it'll grow into place I don't know i really need sleep. work in 6 hours. ok... im going to idle till i get up for work ill see you later see ya --> adiamas|sleeping (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-78.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has joined #rockbox --- adiamas gives channel operator status to adiamas|sleeping <-- adiamas (~adiamas@as5300-9.216-194-23-78.nyc.ny.metconnect.net) has left #rockbox ("Client Exiting") --- Bagder sets mode +t #rockbox what is mode +t? prevent non-ops to set topic ahhh... k gotta learn that stuff... * Bagder is an old IRC-bot author... :-) heheh i only started on irc about a year ago... I stopped writing the bot many years ago... first time on irc was 1993 i was just getting into computers at that point i miss that old 1200 modem :-) now go to sleep! ;-) hehehe nite --> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox anyone awake? yeps coolio how you doing? pretty good. You? yup you interested in coding for the archos then? I am, and I intend to ;-) likewise.. got the player or recorder? or both? recorder, I'm Daniel who posted to the mailing list just an hour ago aha nice to meet you :) i mailed out a few qs to the list several weeks ago name? stuart martin right, I read them ;-) the archos is pretty funky, but flaky as shit mine's got a dodgy contact in the earphone socket probably going to resolder it I just got mine, haven't really had time to do much yet ;-) i do love it but i just wish it had sony's build I'll get the serial port hack soon and start coding it interesting to hear you got 8 cells.. Linus has a fully working gdb stub now yeah, very impressed to read that i know *no* electronics.. i'm waiting for the low-level shit to be completed :) then i can start helping hehe :) I'm not *that* low-level myself, I start on assembler ;-) I can't do much electronics heh, assembler i'm happy with. working out which wire to cut, i'm not :) I think that makes us on the same level more or less ;-) groovy the UI is going to be interesting luckily we have those guys around us to work out those stuff i think we should maybe list the features we want and start prioritising them then start mocking up UI images yeah should be fun working with small screen realestate I would like to write some kind of UI simulator interesting.. go on to enable us to work on UI stuff without having to bother with the actual hardware yup cool idea i guess we'll need to pre-empt the low level services available to the UI I'm a Linux dude myself, so I'd go for a X-display me too although i find windoze usable too with enough cywin and emacs layers on top ;) the UI stuff would be built-up with a minor set of graphics functions, and we could probably just replace those functions with a set that draws X instead is this channel logged? could be useful I log it coolio I think I have some basic X11-code that pops up a window and allows me to draw in it, which could be a start cool how long until it reads mail and displays webpages too? ;) *g* if we just get enough people to join in, there's nothing to stop us ;-) damn right :) the player/recorder screen diffs are a shame yes indeed i wonder if project focus will be on the recorder or the player bjorn's initial investigations were on the player yeps but now he has both but he bought a recorder iirc yeah cool and so does Linus cool and Björn's player CPU is damaged ;-) heh or should I say :-( how'd he damage the cpu? the serial port is broken it isn't normally used, so he hasn't noticed what timezone you in? i'm in london Sweden, +1 from you you friends with linus and bjorn? or just coincidence? <-- wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has left #rockbox --> wavey (~wavey@dlan1431.dircon.co.uk) has joined #rockbox shit yeah, Björn's my brother and Linus is an old time friend. We work at the same company aha :) all three opf us i work as a j2ee consultant for a company with a swedish office we got some of them over here now cos the market in .se is pretty weak yes it seems to be I'm doing embedded/realtime programming as a consultant cool which processor? right now, StrongARM cool i've only done 68K assembler but loved it arm assembler in general is cool, it has conditionals on *all* instructions madness :) hehe, yeah I moved into OO years ago, and wouldn't go back pure elegance (if you get it right) :) hehe, so they say... :-) how far would you wanna see this simulator go? button presses triggering song launching/pausing etc? it all comes down to much much we feel its worth aye i think perhaps the first stage might be to sketch UI ideas we could probably make more or less a complete simulator, should we want and have the eneergy yes and that means identifiying the key aspects and voting on inclusion or doing a bjorn and ignoring the votes :) we can start on UI basics and ideas first, without even think code hehe ok how about throwing that to the mail list give us your wants or perhaps we can envisage most of that already toggle m3u display/filename scrolling/non scrolling level meters time power mode vol button names eyecandy plugins imho, we must focus on getting the basic stuff there first, to allow us to play songs as that would help the guys working on those parts (mp3, filesystem etc) of course but a basic UI is trivial just a button label yes, that's true while they are developing that we can look to the medium term right and of course, we need emacs ported to it :) * Bagder grins i remember when i started coding for the gameboy advance people started talking about porting linux so so funny feel free to post a summary to the list, could be useful but it always happens :) yes it does it'll happen here too soon :-) did you fill your 20GB capacity yet? i did mine in an hour and a half :) heh, no, but I don't really use it yet either bought a usb 2 pci card I stream mp3 from my home-box to work i haven't had mine from my side since i bought it in january I've ordered a usb2 card too I finally bought mine now since I was supposed to stop my project here and thus I wasn't sure I could still listen to my stream, but now I've got another assignment at the same palce so I can continue listening to it... heh typical well, I want to code it anyway, so I guess that'll be my primary use for it ;-) i prefer to use the recorder despite being in front of a computer because it means i get more bandwidth.. and i can get up and move around without killing the sound :-) * Bagder runs for more coffee i've always hated stopping music :) i'll leave the cd player running when i leave the house sometimes. stupid huh? :) --> gizz (~gizz@ALyon-102-2-1-77.abo.wanadoo.fr) has joined #rockbox howdy heya ! g'day did I miss some hot talks ?? :) not really that's on #sex * wavey chuckles hehe or perhaps #hotsex you => Juke hacker ? we're wannabe archos hackers ;-) great! player or recorder ? => I'm a poor player owner, * Bagder has a Recorder recorder also we've been discussing some ideas for the UI but nothing really worthy of capture yet ok problem is, to me player & recorder are very different yus shame yes, we'll need to make two UIs as they'll be quite different but is it worth it ? I mean, does player owe to be supported ever ? well, if people here want to support it, it'll be supported.. the underlying functions of the firmware will be mostly similar between the two right! indeed, and except for display+keys, msot of the internals are the same need a UI strategy the recorder is likely to be supported better because it's cooler.. (UI) anyway good point So, UI guys should make good design decision, in order for the to Juke-races to be supported, at least at low level, juke-races? races : sorts ok hmm, models.. :) understood :) .. but at UI level, they will be supported (very) differently, aye and of cours, recorder owners will be happier :) One thing : on my player, when pleying with custom chars (font) I tried to draw two bitmaps through thos custom chars, (as if custom chars datas where some sort of 'video memory') and then, I thought we could just modify this 'video memory' at will, to simulate some pixel screen but the result wasn't quite good (many pixels where too far from each other, due to space between chars) That's all... :) Did you try to draw some stuff on your recorder ? nope I compiled the player firmware on my box, but haven't tried a recorder one I just got mine, I intend to get the gdb-stub approach working first ok; If recorder prices get lower, I think I'll move to it gizz: nice idea with the video memory vid mem : well, in all cases, that would produce an 14 * 55 screen :) (if I remember well) 14 pixels is pretty damn limiting :) amen remind me what the recorder has? oh time to mock up some screens to get the juices flowing maybe 131 * 64 or better ?? 112x64 cool resolution !! (slightly less than HP48 ;o) can't wait to get some games going ;-) If only I had a recorder, I could try to port some nifty HP48 100% assembly games :o) hehe (with scrolling, sprites, grey level, etc.. :) it has sprites? Never played Columns II on HP48 ?? sprites : yes ! gosh what about : Arkanoid, Skweeks, Xennon, or even : Doom, grey-level, with monsters, textures, and multiplayers ? (well, two players, with serial cable) nah, let's aim for PPP over the USB and have full internet access ;-) LOL hey, I've got an idea : I'm gonna try the grey-level tricks tonight, just to see if it works :)à you at home, or at work ? work * gizz too :) ssh'ed to home cool ! => i'll back later then.. :) bye ! bye <-- gizz has quit ("Leaving") damn missed the important bit sprites! lovely :) yeah, that would be great ;-) i can imagine some nice visualisations coming out of this eyecandy is important :) indeed it is 112x64 * wavey opens psp wow it's really really small :) this is going to be interesting are there character fonts built in to the recorder or is it purely bitmapped? pure bitmaps, as I've understood it, but the font is stored as separate bitmaps as the pics on http://bjorn.haxx.se/rockbox/notes.html shows ah yes the project went pretty quiet for a while forgot the basics yeah, after the initial burst there has been some silence and hard work at the side so intial, still very basic, ui-simulator seems to work hey nice pops up window, can draw in it etc lovely is it worth trying to identify key functional areas, and see how they lead to a UI requirement? 1. start playing 2. pause playing 3. stop playing 4. increase volume 5 decrease volume are these the fundamental ones? playlist etc extend this yes they're the basics without them, there is no player ok, playlist operations are another and file operations are another level meters balance control timekeeping playlist on the recorder firmware is simple add to playlist play list play list randomly delete from list next in list back in list hey, I haven't understood how the playlist works yet ;-) i figured :) hence the recap :) how much was your recorder? I'm not sure... I had a friend order it for me point 1) above assumes a file can be identified from the hdd which kinda presupposes some file operations are needed at the start i.e. browse right, filesystem support is essential shall we propose 2 main UI iterations, with the first being 1-5 above + browse filesystem and the 2nd being the one with the extra fluff like balance control, timekeeping etc? sounds wise, yes do you have your recorder with you now? no the level meters take up 1/4 of the screen! ridiculous i mean, who cares? they're quite silly, I agree and the three timers are silly * Bagder tries to get Björn here --> Zagor (~bjst@labb.contactor.se) has joined #rockbox there he is ;-) hey bjorn nice to meet you hey there guys i'm sure daniel's filled you in on our discussions so far trying to identify a) the minimum UI ah, no not really to enable testing of firmware code and b) a candidate full-featured UI with bells and whistles a) needs file browsing support, plus play/pause/stop file + volume control b) has playlist control, m3u display, balance control, etc so Zagor, you ok with me creating a subdir in CVS and importing my initial X11 UI stuff? and a funky lil' gui bagder: sure. maybe something called 'simulator' or similar, to clearly show it's not the "real" code righ, I'll go for simulator i'd be more explicit well, my first thought when i threw this item on Daniel was, from experience, naming becomes important in directory structures that it'd be a good thing if we can have the basic menu system the same for the two models not so much the graphic bits, more the underlying framework sure sensible ok, so 'uisimulator' then ;-) sounds great to me (note: i'm at work, so I'll be idle from now and then) likewise in london ah, you guys work at work? :-] sometimes :) Zagor: with gaim, how the heck do I create an account? hmm